tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6755950306920485021.post7502780153888929402..comments2024-01-02T18:52:58.449-08:00Comments on Polyglot Vegetarian: KookooMMcMhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18050858208942064042noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6755950306920485021.post-91260248746096452722007-09-29T14:45:00.000-07:002007-09-29T14:45:00.000-07:00John Cowan: I too took the simpler premise that th...John Cowan: I too took the simpler premise that the dish really is broccoli, though I haven't seen anything definitive about what White came to call, “<A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=jWdZa1qclpsC&q=%22the+spinach+joke%22&pgis=1#search" REL="nofollow">the spinach joke</A>.” As I understand it (e.g., <I><A HREF="http://www.librarything.com/work/442272" REL="nofollow">World Encyclopedia of Cartoons</A></I>), the cartoon originally had an unsatisfactory caption (or maybe a choice of several, none any good). It just does not seem necessary for the kid to be exposing a false claim. Nor do I think that this <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=VRDF0OtrQY4C&pg=PA113&vq=spinach+broccoli+prejudices&dq=spinach+broccoli&sig=SMm5VqC_VJ-hj89nZC6tTRlyTw0" REL="nofollow">book</A> gets it quite right that the term “spinach” subsequently came to imply an unchallenged prejudice. As <I><A HREF="http://worldcat.org/wcpa/oclc/32168388" REL="nofollow">The Food Chronology</A></I> points out, this was at a time when broccoli was a relative novelty and just about a month before Popeye appeared on the scene to cause children to reevaluate their spinach opinions. (Though I think the author goes too far in saying that the D'Arrigo Brothers introduced broccoli to America. It seems <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=ZfSmSmC0WhMC&pg=PA170&dq=broccoli+d'arrigo&ei=o7T-RpD3EYb07gKS9snXBA&sig=oXPv6hAMSs_pUZVZ1Ob0wWpMtek" REL="nofollow">well</A> <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=gyVJsh8fULAC&pg=PA254&dq=broccoli+d'arrigo+1923&ei=H7X-RofpCIjm6wLJ-qjlDQ&sig=IUvL6t7YJI6wv3MmvLrzoqCbyLA" REL="nofollow">established</A> that they promoted it in the 20s, but after all, <A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=kDZy5EovSc4C&pg=PA615&dq=broccoli+inauthor:thomas+inauthor:jefferson&as_brr=0&ei=w7X-RtOnGobs7gKWk8TlDQ&sig=HNd18DwTGCleZyfV8OcVcNW7ZZg" REL="nofollow">Jefferson</A> grew it.) <I><A HREF="http://books.google.com/books?id=WlpTYjroXvsC&pg=PA207&vq=contrast+vulgarity+gentility&sig=cE331aTmhE3yBsyYWYmD-dDfqTM" REL="nofollow">Defining New Yorker Humor</A></I> gets a bit Bergsonian, seeing the key in the assignment of the comparatively rough language of the caption to the cartoon scene. And that sounds not too far off to me. The child's attitude, if not her expression, is not unexpected. So it works to just <A HREF="http://www.cartoonbank.com/item/27814" REL="nofollow">replay</A> the scene in Japan many years later, and not just on the level of self-aware irony.<BR/><BR/>Alexander: Thanks for pointing that out; I have added a clarification. I also sometimes get fooled by inconsistent transliteration in sources of various ages.MMcMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18050858208942064042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6755950306920485021.post-81670912902274505062007-09-28T12:53:00.000-07:002007-09-28T12:53:00.000-07:00A very minor note: لالہ رخ lāla rax means 'tulip c...A very minor note:<BR/><BR/><I> لالہ رخ lāla rax means 'tulip cheeks'.</I>]<BR/><BR/>In Persian, لالہ is generally pronounced lāleh (roughly /lɒlɛ/). Lāla is the Azeri pronunciation, written lalə in the Latin Azeri orthography. Given that Lala Rokh's website mentions Iranian Azarbaijan, this is not surprising. Incidentally, the word rox/rax does not exist in Azeri, as far as I can tell (its equivalent would be yanaq).Alexanderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03702207795969761295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6755950306920485021.post-84968113912596773822007-09-28T11:13:00.000-07:002007-09-28T11:13:00.000-07:00What's your take on the actual meaning of E.B. Whi...What's your take on the actual meaning of E.B. White's caption for the Carl Rose cartoon? The interpretation depends on whether the vegetable on the kid's plate is actually broccoli ior not.<BR/><BR/>My original, immediate view was that the mother was lying and the kid was identifying the spinach in broccoli's clothing. But it turns out that many people assume the mother is telling the truth, and that the kid is simply lumping all yucky green vegetables as "spinach" in order to get out of tasting the broccoli. Thurber mentions the cartoon in <I>The Years With Ross</I>, but gives no hint of which interpretation he or White had in mind.John Cowanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11452247999156925669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6755950306920485021.post-65280083326087705002007-09-26T13:47:00.000-07:002007-09-26T13:47:00.000-07:00Most interesting. Thank you for directing my atte...Most interesting. Thank you for directing my attentions this way.<BR/><BR/>I'll be back - <A HREF="http://lakecounty.typepad.com/life_in_lake_county/" REL="nofollow">The County Clerk</A>Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02518570102781889766noreply@blogger.com